Mapping Contest Discussion Thread - November

Artesia · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject:

yeah if you leave it up top, and jump down and go back into the other room, it kills the first one and spawns a new one.

you can't get a second, but you can get a replacement

nickworks · Test Participant Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 39

Hmm... I might be considering making a map to enter.

But if the player accidentally destroys their companion, I think it could definitely kill the fun-level of most maps to have to start over completely. Especially if the level is long.

I'm petitioning for the rules to allow new cubes to be created if the player accidentally kills theirs. There are a lot of screwy ways to get stuck. Even ways that don't "kill" the cube, ways that just make it impossibly out of reach.

Not hating, just suggesting. Smile

Thanks
Nick

espen180 · Loves Cake Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 370

Eh, I'd just have a lot of triggers triggering on/off a lot of func_clip_vphysics entities. Confused

msleeper · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject:

nickworks · Test Participant Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 39

Thanks!

I think this will let mappers be a little more creative, and this will be easier on the players as well - it might encourage trial-and-error or puzzles that are just trickier. I think you'll see better quality maps entered.

Also, if the puzzle is a tricky puzzle, is it okay to let players "reset" it by pressing a button that will destroy their companion and create another one?

Thanks,
Nick

taco · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:

The idea of the companion cube is that you are with it, and need it, from end to end in a map. And while there may be a way to get your cube stuck and then receive a replacement (i thought that was patched, no?) it is not "intended".

By having a map where you can "lose" you cube, you may as well be using a storage cube.

WCC maps are about creating a bond with the cube, thus the sadness of it's death when you have to throw it into the furnace.

If the WCC was dispensable, it wouldn't be anything special at all.

Yes, this will impact map design, but isn't that half the challenge?

nickworks · Test Participant Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 39

taco · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject:

youme · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject:

personally I think if you loose/kill/misplace your WCC you are a cold, heartless beast and should be made to re-do the whole level, regardless of how long it is.

Lorithad · Loves Cake Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 250

I second Youme's opinion.

nickworks · Test Participant Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 39

Lorithad · Loves Cake Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 250

Nick, you're absolutly right, it would be a little irritating to make a player do the entire thing again. But that wouldn't really happen in a real game situation.

The map maker would more than likely provide autos saves at every chamber where it was possible to destroy the cube. Upon cube destruction, the last autosave would be loaded.

youme · Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject:

No, Lothirad. The intelligent mapper will make his map so that either the player is always provided with the needed equipment Or they make sure the map will not let them destroy their equipment.

Thus negating any problems of having to restart.

If you have to restart for any reason other than you're just about to be killed by 10,000 zombies/combine/turrets then the mapper has done a poor job of testing his/her map

...

The rule should be:

Provide new cubes upon cube loss or make sure cube loss is impossible

End of story

Lorithad · Loves Cake Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 250

While I agree that a good map should always provide the tools or equipment they need to continue, I don't believe that making it impossible to destroy the needed equipment is really all that good of an idea.

I mean, take EP2 for example. At the part where you get the car, you can easily just shoot it off the bridge with the gravity gun. When you do that, a message pops up as the screen fads saying that equipment nessesary to the completion of the game was destroyed (or something along those lines) and then loads the last autosave.

Idealy, the autosave revert is the best choice. These are supposed to be companion cube levels right? Well often you need to use the companion cube to get to places you wouldn't be able to get to without it. So often you wouldn't be able to get back to the start point (where one would logically assume the cube would respawn) without the cube.

Korjagun · Test Supervisor Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 120

The difference is that there aren't any viable alternatives in the case of EP2. If the player just saw the car automatically respawning at the top of the hill again, there'd be some major breakage of the player's suspension of disbelief. (For some reason we're a lot more lenient when it comes to savegames...)

On the other hand, Portal players are used to being given a new cube if we lose our first one, so respawning it isn't a problem. In other words, it's possible to both have our cake and eat it, too--that is, assuming it's not a lie in the first place.